Furst Draft

Top stories for 2010

On Thursday and Friday, we'll run Backtalk questions that invite readers to vote on the top five stories in the region and in the nation/world. If you were to start with five options in the area and region for Thursday's list, what would they be? Ditto for the nation/world?

 

'Name-calling...adds nothing to these blogs'

Here's a comment posted on a story at Postbulletin.com regarding our new process of previewing reader comments:

I think that previous to the implementation of this policy all the name calling and back and forth labeling of posters got in the way of any real debate or exchange of ideas.

I also think that it was this behavior online that inhibited some people from posting their thoughts -- not because posters were unable to defend their ideas but because they were too often in a position of having to defend who can defend against a label, a stereotype or being called a name.

Name-calling and throwing around of labels --whether “righties” or “libbies” adds nothing to these blogs. It is a distraction and diversion and only gets people off topic when they attempt to defend and explain themselves against some of these posters.
Surely everyone who wishes to post online can do so civilly and without resorting to name calling and sterotypes.
I’d rather have bad spelling and good ideas than no ideas at all. I’d also rather have an big table with everyone comfortable joining in and contributing.

If the purpose of these blogs is to engage the general public and hear others viewpoints and ideas then this policy is a welcome one-especially given what has passed as ‘debate’ in the past before this polcy was implemented.
Id even bet that the ones complaining about this new policy are those people who have rountinely relied on namecalling, as well as the use of sterotypes and labels when posting.
Staying on topic without constantly resorting to these cheap shots will improve these blogs.
I for one am happy to see this happen and I hope that others who truly care about this city/county/country/world will not hesitate but feel free to join in and share their thoughts and ideas online.

 

Bingo. I added this comment to the story in response:

Thanks for the comment, Oldsoldier. This is it exactly: "I think that previous to the implementation of this policy all the name calling and back and forth labeling of posters got in the way of any real debate or exchange of ideas."

While we don't delete comments that have strong critical comments about other commenters, we do screen out what most people would call defamatory, offensive, racist, sexist or vulgar personal attacks on others. We're hopeful that this is already making a difference and that the comments will become more civil and interesting. Thanks for your patience as we go through this.

What to do with the 'snappy tripe' in reader comments

Here's a relevant column from the New York Times on reader comments and what to do with them. The Times requires readers to register, which presumably takes the anonymity issue away, but even so, there are issues.

As Arthur Brisbane writes:

...What is clear to me, though, is that the considerable grumbling arises because The Times has created an online feature that is extremely appealing to many readers.

In the creation of something good, alas, expectations have risen. Now the thundering herd of commenters wants more. And, as I have learned in exploring the origins and features of the comments system, more is going to cost more.

The system of commenting at The Times owes much of its success to the human beings who actually moderate comments — read them, filter them and decide which ones to publish. This filtering process yields, in many cases, substantive commentary by a readership that feels empowered to participate online — a combination that I believe is of great value. Many other news sites offer comments areas, but because they are not human-moderated, they are deluged with snappy tripe that scrolls on endlessly...

We don't "moderate" the reader comments at Postbulletin.com, per se. We filter out comments that violate our terms of use -- no vulgarity, obscenity, libel, defamation or offensive personal attacks. That last category sometimes requires a judgment call -- a reader comment today used a bizarre name-calling phrase to attack Rochester Superintendent Romain Dallemand. It was weird enough that we didn't know what to make of it, but that's where I say, just delete it. It adds nothing to the dialogue.

But the vast majority of comments steer clear of that while expressing strong, clear opinions. That's all we ask. We devote a lot of time and energy to your comments; we're committed to continuing them. We ask for your patience in getting them posted, and your good discretion in avoiding pointless personal attacks.

'Humor an old man...stop spoiling the joke!'

Here's a question I get now and then from readers:

This one if for my 80 yr old father-in-law:
Why in "Tar Nation" do they print the "PUNCHLINE" punchline on the front page of the PB?  That's like revealing a magic trick before it's been performed, like telling someone how a movie ended before they have seen it, like reading the end of a book first….well, you get the story.  Humor an old man, and a not so old 50 something, and stop spoiling the joke!  If you need a teaser to make people read the joke, why not put the first line of the joke on the front page?

Kind Regards….Sleepless in St. Marys

My response:

Thanks for this -- we get a question every now and then from a reader on this...by and large, I think people like the format, which tends to get the reader to turn the page...
Get some sleep!

We've been running Punchline on the front page for about three or four years, and I do get why people think it's dumb to run the punchline as the teaser to the joke. That said, it's effective...it works for me fairly often, including for one hilarious joke last week that had a great punchline -- and if you're like me, you generally forget that punchline before you get all the way through the joke on page A2 anyway.

Since the front-end of the joke doesn't really work as a teaser, the alternative would be to just say, "Punchline, page A2." Works a lot better, I think, to intrigue the reader a la "Jeopardy."

'I didn't know there could be such politics in high school sports'

Another reader heard from:

Wow. I read Jay's column and was dumbfounded.  I didn't know there could be
such politics in high school sports.  I guess I think High School is about
building character and making memories and that's all I wanted to do with
the pictures for my nephew.  You just got some great photos that I wasn't
able to get because of timing...I would love to be in line if there is
any chance you decide to give any of them away before you destroy them.

'And they weren't cheap'

Note from a reader:

Hi,
About the MN Prep Photo, which I am sure must have an exclusive contract with MSHSL - they have the rights to any and all photo sales of school sporting events at the dome. When Lourdes was there for the soccer semifinals in 2008, MN Prep Photo contacted all the families to push for sales of their photos taken during the game. And they weren’t cheap.
 
Cris Charlesworth

Just to take another whack at this:

OK, the MSHSL shoots photos and peddles them on MN Prep Photo and they make a little money, fine. The photos are of fine quality. Fine, I get this.

But what means more to that Lourdes kid, to stick with the state football example -- a photo that's never been published and never will be published, or a pic that's published on the front page of the local newspaper? Or on the sports front, or inside -- in any case, it's one of the iconic images of a dream season for this kid. Which matters most?

Some of the pics we typically peddle from sports events (when we're not threatened with legal action by MSHSL, for example) aren't published. And yes, MN Prep Photo might get a pic of a kid that we don't.

But my point is, a locally shot photo that appears in print in a local newspaper has more potential value to a young athlete than an otherwise anonymous pic from a state website.

In case you want to buy a pic from the MSHSL...

...here's the website, MN Prep Photo. On quick glance, it looks like an image download from the Lourdes title game is $15, an 8X10 print is $17, a photo mouse pad is $14, a round bag tag is $12 and a refrigerator magnet is $9.

Wonder how much of that goes to the high school league?

Assignment for a 'crack sports writer'

Note from a reader regarding my column yesterday on the Minnesota State High School League:

Jay,
 
Here is a story idea for your newspaper.  How about instead of you writing a story blasting the High School League about their photo policy, why don't you send up one of your crack sports writers to do a story about the policy and get the League's side of the story.  Then, if you disagree with what they say, write an editorial. 
 
Just a suggestion.
 
Bruce

Not a bad idea, Bruce. I'm guessing a lot of readers would be interested in knowing a lot more about the league, how it's financed, how it spends its money, etc. We'll consider it.

 

'Call their bluff and let the courts decide'

My print column today on the Minnesota State High School League's policy regarding reprints of photos taken at state tournaments has yielded some good reader comments online. Among them:

If the PB took the pictures with their camera, then the pictures are the property of the PB as long as the PB had permission to be in the stadium.

You are not selling “their” pictures, you are selling “your” pictures!

Call their bluff and let the courts decide!

I really doubt they will challenge you as long as the PB camera and writer had PRESS credentials!

+++

Jay - I wonder if you have asked them why and what legal rights they have to your stories and pictures.

Instead of thumbing the nose, maybe a dialogue would work.

FYI, here's the letter from the high school league, which I described in my column as unfriendly, but really, it was more threatening than that. And no, I wasn't intimately familiar with all the language of the agreement that gets us credentialed access to those events. The policy's been around for years, apparently, and this is the first time I can recall that we've received a letter complaining about photo reprints.

Download Rochester Post-Bulletin-Web Photo Sales Cease & Desist

The MSHSL describes itself as "a voluntary, nonprofit association of public and private schools with a history of service to Minnesota's high school youth since 1916."

 

 

'It's one thing to be an obviously biased newspaper'

More on the reader comment issue, an e-mail sent at about 4 a.m. Thursday:

Dear Post-Bulletin,
 
I have been reading and commenting on articles in the PB for some time now and have enjoyed being able to participate in these forums to voice my opinion.  I have been busy lately and took time this morning to look for any information I could regarding the recount.  When I tried to comment on the article in the link below, my comments did not appear after I submitted them.  This has NEVER happened before.
 
I am blind copying several of my conservative friends and my contact at the local GOP.  It is one thing to be an obviously biased newspaper, but it's another entirely to snuff out all voices from the other side...

(I edited this down -- otherwise known as "censoring" -- to trim out some quotes from a confusing thread of reader comments.)

Here's my response to him:

Hi -- I'm sure you're aware by now of the process change and all the commentary on it. I'll just repeat here that we aren't screening for political views, etc., it's to prevent offensive, vulgar, libelous and defamatory comments and inappropriate personal attacks from getting on our site. While it'll result in a delay -- hopefully relatively short -- in comments being posted, it makes our comment area better in a number of ways.

We have no interest in screening for politics and opinion -- and I'm confident that you and others will let us (and others) know if and when we make a bad call on allowing or deleting a comment.

 

Hopefully, the few critics of our new process have already discovered that their comments are getting posted as they always were, aside from a handful that were inappropriate (and would have been deleted AFTER posting in the old days). Where they haven't, I'm sure users will point it out and in fact, when we make a bad call on whether to post a borderline comment, we'll own up to it and post it.

Regarding the "obviously biased newspaper" comment, I had a similar comment from a reader this week that went on to say that we should be more like the Wall Street Journal.

That's an interesting comment, in part because we now run three pages of Journal business content in our weekend edition

The Journal, for the record, has one of the most fiercely conservative editorial pages in the free world. No one compares for conservative thought and anti-Democratic rhetoric to the Journal. They're owned by News Corp.,corporate parent of Fox News and other leading conservative media.

We run Journal news content because we think it's informative and respected. Do you think that content shows a political bias? I don't. Does it mean we're a right-leaning newspaper? Nope. We're not left-leaning, either, when it comes to news.